Sejm Speaker Bronisław Komorowski talks to Andrzej Jonas.


How would you evaluate the distribution of power resulting from the Oct. 21 parliamentary elections? Will it serve Poland well?

The parties that have formed the majority coalition are deeply involved in the European integration process. My party, the Civic Platform (PO), is particularly sensitive to this issue, but the Polish People's Party (PSL), especially in comparison to other parties representing the Polish rural electorate, is also highly pro-European. The aim of deepening the process of European integration was reflected in the work on our joint government program and the coalition agreement. The agreement is based on a belief that a battle for Poland's interests in the EU, including the battle to sustain direct payments for Polish farmers as part of the Common Agricultural Policy, are the most important tasks for the country's future.

The government that lost the recent elections created the impression it supported European integration, but that distance, resistance and doubts were necessary, in the name of the Polish national interest.

This was a clear gesture towards that section of Polish society, over 10 percent, that is skeptical about integration. In my opinion, this was one of the reasons for the previous government's failure. Since 80 or so percent of Poles approach European integration enthusiastically, society gave certain politicians a lesson in Europeanism.

So I think that the election results and the new ruling coalition should be read as clear signals that in terms of approval for integration processes, Poland is coming back to Europe. Our country is shifting from an attitude of unconcealed distrust towards the EU to deep commitment in accelerating the integration process.

How do you assess the Polish distribution of power in a wider context than European issues, that is, in terms of the goals the state should achieve?

First, it is worth noting that the most radical and populist groups have not made it into the parliament-neither Samoobrona, which espouses a kind of leftist populism, or the League of Polish Families, which stands for a type of rightist populism. That testifies to the stabilization of opinions and the mood of society. So it will be easier to attain goals, and it will be easier to provide a clear message to citizens. It is clear that people want order, not revolution; moderation, not radicalism; peace, not quarrels; and cooperation, not war. This will influence government policy, but not only. The groupings that are in opposition today have been taught a lesson that it doesn't pay to be a troublemaker or a delayed revolutionary who years after [the end of communism in 1989] announces plans to turn everything upside down. They were taught that it also doesn't pay to be euroskeptic or fundamentalist, to play on people's fear of the new, on the dislike of wealthy people who have achieved success; that this all leads to election defeat.

I strongly believe that the present government more closely reflects Poles' expectations, although it's not the end of the emergence of a new political landscape. In my opinion, Poland has a problem with the considerable weakness of the left. The left has been unable to overcome a crisis, both in terms of organization and program, or ideology; it has not found a new place for itself. Meanwhile, the existence of credible leftist parties is necessary. And on the right, the situation is not fully developed yet. There will still be a fight for winning the status of the main grouping on the Polish right. Meanwhile, one issue is certainly solved: Polish politics has and will have a strong center. The PO-PSL alliance means a coalition of moderate parties that stand a good chance of permanently pushing radical rightists to the margins.

So would you say the election result is success for the center?

I'd call it the success of the moderate part of the former Solidarity team. In Poland, contrary to many European countries, there is still no clear division into left and right. The divisions have a historical character and are linked with the history of different groupings over the several past decades. Without doubt the PO's victory and the fairly good result of the PSL signal that a grouping from the moderate, pro-European right, close to Christian democracy, has won a permanent place in Poland. The elections were won by a pro-modernization and pro-European party that is simultaneously conservative in terms of the basic functioning of the nation and society, a party deeply rooted in the system of traditional values.

What would you say about the society of today? Is it more mature than 20 years ago, when the peaceful transformation of the political, social and economic system was starting?

Poles are closer to Western Europeans in their attitudes and dreams because they have experienced the benefits of participating in a broad civilizing concept-the European Union. Poles are gradually overcoming the effects of many years in a crisis economy, and the results of living in the eastern mentality system. The fact that a pro-Western, pro-European and pro-market economy party has won, a party that at the same time cherishes a traditional value system, proves that Poles have attained a certain level of prosperity that grants you the luxury of having a conservative view of the world.

The drama of the Polish right resulted from the fact that for may years it had to be revolutionary in character, implementing deep changes in the economic system. And conservatives feel badly in revolution conditions; they easily lose their values. So I think that time has finally come for Polish conservatism to be pro-European and pro-development.

Do you think Poles have also made a step toward a civic society?

The Oct. 21 elections were a battle of two visions, of a centralized Poland and a decentralizing Poland, a battle of two concepts, one that called for rule by controlling everything, and one that assumes that those in power trust society and its local government system, and trust themselves more. I believe this is also a conflict of two mentalities, one inherited from the old system that assumed the government knows better and has the right to decide about everything, and the other one born during the great democratic breakthrough in 1989.

So would you say that the result of the elections proves that the winning parties' policy program is attractive in terms of relations between the government and people?

In my opinion, the election result is above all a reflection of the long-cherished Polish dream of living like people do in the West. Everyone in Poland has always realized that this was a better life. If someone would emigrate, it was always to the West, never to the East. The Poles have a deeply rooted conviction that the West is richer, safer, more law-abiding, more logical, prettier. I think that the PO has taken aboard this dream, the dream of building a Poland that will be just like the rest of the EU, like Catholic Ireland that has become one of Europe's fastest developing countries, like super-Catholic Spain that is undergoing profound modernization and development, and like many other countries.

Aren't you afraid of this modern Europe that often raises fears in small Polish towns, in the provinces?

I'm not, and think that fewer and fewer Poles are. Remember what was being said in the early and mid-1990s when Poland was aspiring to NATO and EU membership? They would say this heralded the end of our national identity, the collapse of our traditions and our ancestors' faith, secularization. And did those fears prove true? Today, over 90 percent of Poles declare they belong to the Catholic Church, including the vast majority of leftist voters. National traditions are reviving, and traditional values are highly regarded...

So it has turned out-and this is phenomenal in my view-that the Civic Platform, a party that many try to label as liberal, has managed to convince society that it is possible to carry out modernization safely while respecting traditions.

Is there a chance in this parliament of improving people's regard for the Sejm? How can this be done?

Two radical parties that caused the most turmoil, chaos and bad press for the parliament have disappeared. The fewer such immature politicians, the bigger the chance for harmonious work. The question is how the opposition will behave in the present Sejm. How quickly will it get over its post-election frustration, and will it try to take the place, to some degree, of the radicals who failed to get into the Sejm?

Another weak area that can be improved is the dislike in parliament up to now of using experts, people who have experience not only in politics. It is absolutely necessary to reinforce parliamentary committees with teams of experts.

What could hinder the smooth functioning of parliament?

I can see a certain threat in potential problems in the Sejm's cooperation with the president. In the Polish system, the president has a powerful tool at his disposal, the right of veto. I hope that questions about the ability of the government and the president to cohabit will be answered positively.

Of course, in a situation where the Sejm might have to reject the president's unwarranted veto on bills, there is a need for an agreement between the coalition parties and the Left and Democrats (LiD) that would make it possible to defend the parliament against the potential risk of being paralyzed by unjustified presidential vetoes. I hope this will not happen, but I'd favor a situation in which it is clear that an unjustified veto can be overruled.