Jerzy Buzek, Polish prime minister from 1997 to 2001, now a member of the European Parliament and its rapporteur for energy technology development, talks to Ewa Dereń.

In January the European Commission unveiled a new energy and climate package that is designed to be the European Union's response to climate change. Among other stipulations, the package provides for limits on carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions for individual industrial sectors. Poland is third on the blacklist in the European Union in terms of CO2 emissions, but at the same time it is far less developed economically than other EU countries. Will the Polish energy sector, which is 96-percent based on coal, be able to comply with the EU requirements?
The energy and climate package comprises three directives: on obtaining energy from renewable sources, on the underground storage of CO2, and on regulating carbon dioxide emission limits and the future trading of emissions. Under this last directive, industrial plants will have to buy emission rights at auctions. Power plants will be able to buy all of their CO2 emission rights beginning 2013, while other sectors will be included in the auction system gradually.

The package calls for a radical reduction in CO2 emissions, by as much as 20 percent by 2020. This is a very ambitious goal that can only be achieved if clean coal technologies are developed. The largest amounts of CO2 are released by coal-fired power plants, so the key issue is to work on zero-emission systems capable of generating power while completely eliminating CO2 emissions. Europe and the whole world can only be saved from climate change by developing better, more efficient and cheaper emission-reducing technologies. Stricter CO2 limits alone will not solve the problem, as they could also restrict the competitiveness of European industry, whereas the impact on the global situation would be negligible anyway. It's much better to earmark more funds for innovative technologies. The EU already has such a project, known as the Flagship Program, under which 12 completely zero-emission coal-based power generation systems will be built in Europe by 2015. Poland has to do everything in its power to develop such systems. In fact, the way I see it, at least two of the 12 systems should be built in Poland. Developing new technologies is the only way to comply with EU requirements for reducing CO2 emissions without hampering the development of our energy sector, which has no other option but coal. Energy from renewable sources will always account for a marginal percentage of all energy generated in Poland. We have to do all we can for Poland to embrace the EU's Flagship Program for producing clean energy from coal. This is the future of our economy.

On Feb. 25, you participated in the signing of an agreement in Warsaw on the setting up of a Polish Platform for Clean Coal Technologies. Whose initiative was this and what will the platform's work involve?
The Polish Platform for Clean Coal Technologies was initiated by the Vattenfall Polska company and the National Contact Point for EU Research Programs. What is especially important about this project is that the platform was created jointly by giant corporations and smaller companies from the power sector. Even though these companies compete with one another, they have decided to work together to develop and implement clean coal technologies, in what is an important event for the Polish energy sector. No less important, the platform can count on government support. It was established in the presence of officials from the ministries of the economy and the environment. The first goal is to draw up a strategic plan of action to develop and apply clean coal technologies in industrial practice. At the same time, the platform will take action to make sure that Polish projects are included in the program for building the 12 zero-emission systems. In this project, the Polish platform will work together with the European Technology Platform for Zero Emission Fossil Fuel Power Plants (ETP ZEP). This is a fundamental European agreement that brings together all scientific and commercial players as well as public authorities for the shared objective of carrying out this huge program for limiting CO2 emissions from coal-fired power plants. Worldwide, though, there are many other ties among various businesses and countries working together in power projects. It's worth mentioning Norway in this context. Though not an EU member, this country has been extremely active in this field. There are also regular contacts with the United States, South Africa and Australia that are aimed at technology transfer, among other goals.

You were responsible for preparing the EU's 7th Framework Program for research and innovation in 2007-2013, and you are monitoring its implementation on behalf of the European Parliament. How important is this program for the financing of new research fields, including clean coal technology?
The 7th Framework Program assigns 54 billion euros for research and new technologies. This is the EU's third-largest program, after those in agriculture and structural funds. Energy technologies are very costly. Today a zero-emission coal-burning technology can be up to 60 percent more expensive than a traditional, environment-polluting one. We have to do everything in our power to develop technologies that will be cheaper and affordable not only to Europe but also to Asian countries, whose share of global CO2 emissions is the largest. This is in our common interest because we live on the same planet and climate change linked to greenhouse gas emissions affects us all in the same way. Hence, apart from the 7th Framework Program, a separate specialist program called the Strategic Energy Technology Plan (SET Plan) has been set up. This is another program I manage on behalf of the European Parliament. Energy issues are slowly becoming a priority area for European institutions and the European Commission. I'm glad that the European Parliament has a major role to play in this; today no one needs convincing that it is necessary to reduce CO2 emissions and counteract the changes caused by global warming.

When we speak of clean coal technology we usually mean trapping and storing carbon dioxide. These two processes were the subject of a recent conference in Cracow and Katowice, held at your initiative and attended by EU Commissioner for Energy Andris Piebalgs. The underground storage of CO2 is still in its early phase; it's a promising technology but one that requires a lot more research. When will it become more widespread?
Storing carbon dioxide is in a way the final process as far as clean coal technology is concerned. Research shows that the safest way of storing CO2 is under the ground by trapping in deep geological layers. Though tests have been carried out around the world for over a decade, our conference was the first one in Europe that addressed this subject. Moreover, it was held just three weeks after the publication of the EU directive on the storage of CO2 in deep geological layers. While storing carbon dioxide was the main theme of the conference, we also discussed trapping CO2 because to store it anywhere, you first need to separate it from other waste gases spewed into the atmosphere from coal-burning power plant chimneys. This separation can be easier or harder, depending on the technology that a given power plant uses for converting coal energy into electricity. Coal gasification is one promising technology; it involves incomplete combustion of coal in a special chemical process that makes it possible to not only use the energy of coal but also easily separate CO2 from the rest of the waste gas. It is possible to conduct the coal gasification process directly within the deposit, without extracting it to the surface. It is also possible to burn power plant coal in pure oxygen, when there's no problem with separating CO2. As for storing CO2, today we think that closed-down mines and underground excavation sites are a good idea for this, and there have been some successful attempts to store the gas under the sea as well. The Norwegians in particular have achieved some good results in this area, but Poland's Lotos group, which produces and distributes fuel, is also conducting similar trials on the Baltic.

Some environmental organizations argue that underground storage facilities for carbon dioxide are not environmentally friendly. Is this true?
This kind of opinion is the effect of people not knowing what carbon dioxide really is. It isn't a poisonous gas; just the reverse, it is essential for life to exist on Earth. Without it, there would be no plant photosynthesis and assimilation. The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere would not be a problem at all if it weren't for the fact that this is also a greenhouse gas. We are only fighting the physical aspect of its impact on the Earth's atmosphere; its presence hampers the removal of excess heat from the Earth into outer space at night, which causes climate changes dangerous to the world. There is no other way of counteracting global warming than by radically reducing the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere. We have a choice: we can either accomplish this by introducing clean coal technologies with underground storage of CO2 as the last stage, or close down all coal-fired power plants. If, however, hypothetically speaking, carbon dioxide were to escape from a storage facility at some point, this would pose no environmental danger in the sense of harming people; any such fears are groundless. It's hard to expect that Norway, a country known for its restrictive environmental regulations, would test a technology endangering the environment and people. Tests involving the underground storage of CO2 are also far advanced in the Netherlands, Germany and the United States. By joining the international debate and research on these problems, Poland is joining the leaders in the field.

What are the realistic prospects for implementing new coal technologies in Poland?
We face just one prospect: either we invest in these technologies, guaranteeing supplies of power from Polish coal, or we will be forced to shut down our coal-fired power plants, and then also our mines because we won't be able to bear the costs of buying emission limits, which means paying fines for releasing carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. That will force us to buy power abroad, which will mean having to spend at least zl.30 billion on cross-border transmission networks alone. The electricity will be an added cost. That's the worst-case scenario; if it comes true we will lose the energy independence we are so proud of today. It's worth realizing that Poland today is the most energy-secure country in Europe, with 96 percent of its electricity coming from its own coal and 3 percent from its own renewable sources-in all, that's 99 percent of power coming from our own sources. No other country in Europe has such a high level of energy security.

But this security could be squandered unless we bring our CO2 emissions under control. Nuclear energy could be some kind of prospect for Poland, but ultimately it will only account for a small percentage of the country's power mix; the main source of energy will always be coal. No matter how we look at the problem, we will always come back to clean coal technology.

Clean technology is expensive. Isn't that a serious drawback in implementing it on an industrial scale, and not just in Poland?
Yes, high costs are the main barrier to its widespread use. We have to remember, though, that when the world started combating acid rain, or sulfur dioxide emissions, back in the 1950s, power generation costs grew by as much as 80 percent because the technologies were so imperfect at the time. Today the costs are just 7-8 percent higher, and we have long forgotten that we had a sulfur dioxide problem. Back then it was also unclear in the beginning what to do with the waste, while now buyers stand in line in Bełchatów to buy gypsum, which is a byproduct of flue gas desulfuring. The gypsum is used by road builders and cement plants; nothing is left after desulfuring. Achieving this success took about 30 years. We don't have that much time now; we have to deal with the CO2 emission problem soon. This is why the European Union, which tries to be a leader in preventing climate change, is adopting such radical emission reduction programs. It cannot solve the problem on its own, however. EU countries account for just 14 percent of global CO2 emissions; even if we reduced our emissions by 30 percent, on a global scale we would reduce them by only 4 percent. The key to success-as was the case with sulfur dioxide-is technology, technology, technology. With time its development will lead to cost reductions, whereas neglecting to develop and implement it will generate costs. Meeting the emission limits, as specified in the EU energy and climate package, could lead to reduced CO2 emissions but at the same time provoke stagnation in European industry. Many companies would simply move to China, India, Russia or Ukraine, where no such limits exist. In effect we would reduce the competitiveness of European industry, but our impact on improving the state of the world's atmosphere would be negligible anyway. It is much more rational to invest in a technological leap. It is only by offering state-of-the-art-but with time also cheaper and more accessible-technologies that we will be able to persuade other countries to join the climate protection campaign. In China, for example, a new power plant is completed every week; unless this country joins the operation, our efforts will be in vain. The only thing that could convince the Chinese are technologies that do not dramatically increase power generation costs. Not CO2 limits but state-of-the-art clean coal technologies will be decisive for halting climate change and for the future of the European power sector and economy.

Before such technologies become available, it is important to increase people's awareness of the realistic danger that greenhouse gas emissions pose for the planet. How can we get everyone to start contributing to climate protection?
This is a key problem. And Poland is taking responsibility today for negotiating a worldwide agreement on the matter. In early December, the 14th Conference of the Parties to the United Nations Framework Climate Convention (UNFCC COP 14) will be held in Poznań. For the first time, this major event, held as part of a process of international negotiations on the global climate protection system, will be hosted by a Central European country. Officials from almost 200 countries will attend. The previous U.N.-endorsed international climate change summit in Bali (COP 13), in December last year, ended with the adoption of a "road map" that defines the broad framework of negotiations on an effective agreement on climate protection beyond 2012. COP 14 in Poznań will be key to taking appropriate steps in negotiating a new effective agreement that is expected to be finalized at the next conference, in Copenhagen in 2009. I am working closely with the Polish government on preparing this project. We have set ourselves a serious goal: to present all the best technologies related to reducing CO2 emissions, and also come up with a kind of commercial proposal for the world in connection with these technologies. The talks will also cover renewable and nuclear energy, but the focus will be on technologies involving coal, as that is the greatest threat in terms of CO2 emissions and global warming. I have high hopes for the Poznań meeting. An exhibition of the world's best technologies accompanying the conference, as proposed by the Polish government, stands a chance to be shown in many countries around the world. This will be the best promotion of clean energy and climate protection, and a huge promotional opportunity for Poland.